STO, CO and my insane "artistic vision"...

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Post  Rhino on Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:18 pm

I was talking with some of you about this, but here is "officially" for all. Smile

So, STO will come much sooner than expected which actually put me in a bit of a difficult situation. Mainly because I do not want to play two different MMOs with two different sets of characters and campaigns. The other one is that I do not want to drop Diana and Angie just yet. For me they have somewhat become as the legendary characters that "got lives of their own" writers talk about.

Now, Diurne gave one possible solution to the thing. since STO and CO run on same engine and same servers the idea was that CO is actually a holonovel that STO characters play. That idea would resolve some of my problems, sure. But then comes another problem, who are actually people who play Diana "Love Angel" Bright and Angelique "Darksparrow" Kraft? Obviously they don't have to be similar at all in character and act, but that would defeat the whole idea of playing Diana and Angie. So, they should be at least somewhat similar to the people they are in "holonovel".

Angie can actually be very straightforward... simply former Borg victim engineer. Basically she could be almost intact in all forms without any problems at all.

Diana on the other hand is more difficult to handle. Her main trait is almost obsessive positivism and idealism, which reaches levels that cannot really be considered as realistic outside comicbook superhero genre. So funnily all who I asked for opinions had mostly a bit of unusual ideas how to fit Diana in.
- Diana is actually EMH. While we all imagine Robert Picardo as EMH, there are second EMH generations that possibly have many different looks. Diana's extreme personality and wish to help others and protect them can easily go with EMH behavior.
- Diana is ship's computer on board of USS Bright. Ship's computers are not AI's so obviously here I should go with "new experimental technology". Since in ST AIs are possible (as seen with Data and his "siblings", and many alien examples) this may go too. Diana as ship's computer wishes to protect and help her crew again goes in her personality.
-Some alien species with extreme moral values in their culture, possibly ship's councilor or doctor. This would keep Diana almost fully intact... except her name that should not be Diana Bright anymore. Smile

Last thing is scrapbook. I love doing it (even if it goes slow lately) and honestly I do not want to exchange to frankly plain and drab looking PADD logs or something similar with overused Star Trek looking OS and buttons. One suggestion was that someone who is fan of CO "holonovel" actually makes it as a hobby fan project. On the other hand that same someone could be an alien who prefers other written media than PADD so could make personal logs on paper or in some other odd way.

There it is. so if anyone has any idea, suggestio or anything to comment about all written above, just shoot. Any idea could be helpful.
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Post  Diurne on Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:58 pm

Holodeck simulations are also for entertainment and escapment. Personnel enjoying the holodeck don't have to be strictly playing a holocharacter similar to them.
Worf isn't a merry man after all.

So there can be a relative straight divorce of personnalities between the Starfleet officer and the holocharacter.

What is consistant in Trek is the appearance isn't changing while on the holodeck (the holonovel characters will simply ignore the odd appearance or clothing, at best make a snide or comical comment about them).

So "Angelique" is probably a Starfleet officer with similar cybernetics. "Diana" should be blonde even on the ship board (pink dressing is however optionnal).

If you don't find a satisfying solution for Diana, or if it would require too much compromises to your tastes, you can also say Diana Bright is strictly a holonovel character. Not a Starfleet officer enjoying her time in the holodeck. But only a holocharacter. We have Moriarty from TNG, Vic Fontaine from DS9 or Chaotica from Voyager for recurring holocharacters.
In other words, "Diana Bright" only lives in the holodeck. She's a holocharacter, programmed, existing for the officers entertainment (it's a bit sad, said like that but it's only the STO point of view Smile ).

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Post  Seetherius on Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:53 pm

Interestingly, I had this idea already when I was still playing SWG with Coile and the other folks there then and thought then I could export them from a Star Wars holonovel to a Star Trek reality. Wink

Diurne wrote:What is consistant in Trek is the appearance isn't changing while on the holodeck
But the people on the holodeck can tell the computer to be appropiorately dressed. Like Seven had once a romance with a holographic Chakotey and was hiding her ocular implant or in First Contact Lily and Picard were suddenly dressed like the figures in the holonovel or in last episode of Enterprise were Riker was in a "subjective mode" and wore the uniforms of Enterprise crew members.

Diurne wrote:So there can be a relative straight divorce of personnalities between the Starfleet officer and the holocharacter.
Yup, Barcley is propably the best example here. In TNG on the holodeck he was living his heroic dreams and in reality he was a shy engineer who stuttered many times. Smile It could also mean that Angie is in "reality" a sociable woman and lives her urge for effectiveness in the Holodeck out. Razz

As for Scrapbook, I agree that its format should stay as it is and not being replaced by a PADD. It could be considered as historic written pieces or a holonovel author is also doing merchendise about his CO work and sells Love Angel or Doc. Megaton action figures for gold pressed latinum! Razz

About Diana herself: Another way is that the Star Trek character behind Diana Bright isn't necessary a Starfleet officer, but someone like Lawxana Troi, a civilian who enjoys very much otimism always defends her ideals.
Or your Starfleet Officer was exposed to "Bright" radiations and caused some irreversible mental effects and multiplied her ethical and moral values by factor 1000 and became a superb doctor/counselor.
Or we use the Deus Ex Mashina and Q snipped with his finger and let the holocharacter became a person with flesh and blood.
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Post  Diurne on Wed Dec 09, 2009 6:09 pm

Seetherius wrote:But the people on the holodeck can tell the computer to be appropiorately dressed.

Yes but that isn't particularly consistant Smile
Oppose this to Dax and Kira exiting Quark holosuite dressed as Camelot dames (or O'Brien and Bashir with flight jackets).
Now, I guess minor features can be changed. But I was speaking about height or build.

About Diana herself: Another way is that the Star Trek character behind Diana Bright isn't necessary a Starfleet officer, but someone like Lawxana Troi, a civilian who enjoys very much otimism always defends her ideals.

Ah yes. I forgot to mention that. Diana STO character could very well be the ship cook or barmaid.

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Post  Rhino on Wed Dec 09, 2009 6:48 pm

Thanks for joining this mish-mash thread. Smile

Anyway, diverging from their personalities too much would defeat the purpose of playing Diana and Angie, which is what is one of my concerns. While of course, they would not be the same they should be at least similar. In Angie's example she would be more similar to "new" Angie obviously, still quite concerned with work and doing it efficient, and although she is relatively serious and not some big barrel of fun, she is sociable and communicative (she may be quite Worf-ish so to say).

On Diana's side, yes, she could be a purely imaginary character, but I'm not sure if I would be really happy with that, although existence of portable holographic emitters may help in that matter. The thing here is obviously, do they actually exist in STO? The one we saw is the thing from the future and used exclusively by the Doctor. Only other reference I found is the one that in 2383 the Soong Foundation attempted to make one. That is 26 years before STO, which is enough time for them to be available if they succeeded at all.

About Diana herself: Another way is that the Star Trek character behind Diana Bright isn't necessary a Starfleet officer, but someone like Lawxana Troi, a civilian who enjoys very much otimism always defends her ideals.
Ah yes. I forgot to mention that. Diana STO character could very well be the ship cook or barmaid.

Like Guinan or "Chef" from Enterprise, a civilian who works on the ship. Or maybe she actually can be an actual daughter of someone like Wesley. That would also explain her childish idealism. Smile
Whatever it may be, this idea is actually most attractive and somehow I fully forgot those civilians onboard ships.

Or your Starfleet Officer was exposed to "Bright" radiations and caused some irreversible mental effects and multiplied her ethical and moral values by factor 1000 and became a superb doctor/counselor.

Laughing This would work well on TOS-themed ship! Or it can be a teleportation accident that turned a criminal into the opposite personality... or switched places with Mirror universe version! *cue in old ST intro music*

Or we use the Deus Ex Mashina and Q snipped with his finger and let the holocharacter became a person with flesh and blood.

However corny this may sound, it is not that bad idea either. God knows that Q(s) have odd sense of humor and like to so such... social experiments. Very Happy


As for Scrapbook, I agree that its format should stay as it is and not being replaced by a PADD. It could be considered as historic written pieces or a holonovel author is also doing merchendise about his CO work and sells Love Angel or Doc. Megaton action figures for gold pressed latinum!

If Diana is a child of someone on the ship (some bridge officer?) it can easily be her project.
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Post  Diurne on Thu Dec 10, 2009 11:04 am

The idea of playing the child of another character or any kid is somewhat entertaining but it better be a late teen otherwise the holoDiana would now act in a probably much more mature than she should.
Plus, it still makes difficult for the STO-child to exist and play in STO itself. We don't have children models and it's unlikely, even, that a kid would be involved into any serious Starfleet action, thus barring any participation "onscreen".
So a kid would be an offscreen STO character (can be a Star Trek Hero character at least) or you go the Wesley route with a late teen character.

It's easier with an adult STO-character. One civilian (a young adult if you want) looks better adapted for action in both CO and STO.

i don't know if we are going to be able to truly drfit away from the uniform look however.
It is possible that, since the core theme is to play Starfleet officers (or Klingon warriors), we won't be able to have a "civilian look" and maybe not even several costume slots.
On the other hand, Cryptic looks to take pride of saying they allow customization of their avatar.
But to me, the civilian role in STO leading to Diana in CO is the most flexible and adapted choice. But it's just my opinion Smile

About Angie, I know you can get a Borg bridge officer if you pre-order from some online ship.
I don't know if there will be, even minor, cybernetic features for our characters. If so, Angie can probably have her STO counterpart.
Since LaForge is having his VISOR, I expect a minimum of face accessories that could pass for cybernetics.


Last edited by Diurne on Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:03 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Post  Seetherius on Thu Dec 10, 2009 11:43 am

Plus, it still makes difficult for the STO-child to exist and play in STO itself. We don't have children models and it's unlikely, even, that a kid would be involved into any serious Starfleet action, thus barring any participation "onscreen".
Yup, STO online missions always involve some sort of ground action or beaming abord another ship. A child wouldn't be allowed to go on any dangerous missions.
Plus the Federation is involved in a massive conflict (is it already declared war? Haven't seen anywhere a reference that confirms it) with the Klingon Empire. So if you want to participate your character should be able to hold a phaser and at least stun people.
i don't know if we are going to be able to truly drfit away from the uniform look however.
I pretty sure you can make a full colored jumpsuit civilian outfit with the options there. While you can't wear casual jeans like Kirk once did in the 5th Star Trek movie you can certainly make a jumpsuit like Seven was wearing all the time or civilians sometimes seen in TNG and hanging around in Ten Forward.
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Post  Diurne on Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:05 pm

Ironically, considering Champions Online is just a holodeck entertainment for STO characters is now giving us a ultra convenient explanation on why our CO characters never dies, can respawn at will and so on Smile

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Post  Rhino on Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:46 pm

Ah yes, I did not mean child as in small kid, but as a son or daughter of someone on the ship. Definitely teen age and up is what I meant. Although since yesterday I have Diana the cook in my head. Her amazing cooking skills in CoH/CO can actually be her own addition to the character she plays because she is using them in "real life". Smile
As for clothes, I' just hope for SFish non.starfleet options and that's good. Civilian jumpsuits or something like 7of9's clothes are quite acceptable for me. Same goes for cybernetics, sadly not even CO has appropriate cyber bits that is why I have Angie wearing jumpsuits or clothes and only her metallic hands are visible. I can go with that even easier in STO since jumpsuits are normal wear there. Smile

By the way, let me guess when you die in STO you are beamed back to some point? Teleporters are a very nice excuse for "respawning". Wink
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Post  Seetherius on Thu Dec 10, 2009 1:36 pm

By the way, let me guess when you die in STO you are beamed back to some point? Teleporters are a very nice excuse for "respawning".
I haven't tested that yet, but that's something we could test maybe tonight. So Tiron will order Riashaala to check out a camp full of Klingon warriors and see what happens then! Razz

The clothes optiosn are all part of a uniform, though you can customize its colors like you want and let it appear as a civilian jumpsuit. We've encountered already some odd looking people that are worth for the hall of shame.
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Post  Diurne on Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:12 pm

Dying in the Trek universe isn't that much of a problem considering how powerful medicine can be, at times.
There are also emergency teleports to explain much (even if it could get old quickly).

On the other hand, when your ship go kaboom... Suspect

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Post  Rhino on Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:05 pm

Diurne wrote:
On the other hand, when your ship go kaboom... Suspect

Q! It was Q prank! :p


Not related to anything but damn funny... real truth about Kirk and Spock:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uxTpyCdriY&feature=related


Back to the topic...
There is one other thing that may influence this all. I read somewhere mention of having full away teams in missions in STO. does that mean players from other ships or AI controlled bridge crew?
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Post  Seetherius on Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:35 pm

Rhino wrote:There is one other thing that may influence this all. I read somewhere mention of having full away teams in missions in STO. does that mean players from other ships or AI controlled bridge crew?
Your away team consists always of 5 characters. If you play alone and beam down then it's your Bridge Officers and/or Redshirts plus you. Now when two players are going down to the same away mission then the away team consists of both players + 2 Bridge Officers from the groupleader + 1 Bridge Officer from the 2nd player.
And if you beam down with 5 players, then it's like that, 5 player characters and no more or less.

This also means if we four get another player join our Trek group we're then we're for everything ready except fleet battles. Wink
Diurne wrote:On the other hand, when your ship go kaboom... Suspect
Yesterday my Miranda class vessel was destroyed by some klingon mines (these things hurt!) ... after a couple of seconds you respawn again in the system. For game mechanics reason it's good, but not plausible, so we better invent our own story if our ship goes kaboom.
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Post  Diurne on Fri Dec 11, 2009 2:03 pm

Seetherius wrote:This also means if we four get another player join our Trek group we're then we're for everything ready except fleet battles. Wink

Coile ?

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Post  Seetherius on Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:42 pm

I have another idea to make your Star Trek character above realistic over optimistic: the wormhole beings from the Bajoran Wormhole. I remember the Grand Nagus from Ferengi once was turned by them as they deemed him too greedy and all. You could play a Bajoran officer (it's only a minor change on the nose, else the rest of appearance is the same) who takes the do-gooder nature serious and helps others many times. Or your character once flew the wormhole and the wormhole beings have enlightened your character?

Diurne wrote:
Seetherius wrote:This also means if we four get another player join our Trek group we're then we're for everything ready except fleet battles. Wink
Coile ?
I admit he would be the best candidate for it, so if you spot him, you could start to assimilate him! Laughing
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Post  Diurne on Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:20 pm

Difficult. I didn't talk to him since months and he doesn't reply to my "hellos" over MSN.
I tried to have him for Trek Hero for example, this summer. As you can see, I wasn't really successful.

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Post  Rhino on Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:28 pm

I admit he would be the best candidate for it, so if you spot him, you could start to assimilate him! Laughing
Way ahead of you. Wink

And Diana the bajoran would go to the she is an alien bit. Yes, it is considered too. Although her name should be different, unless eh is something like half-bajoran with one human parent. Smile
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Post  Seetherius on Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:48 pm

Rhino wrote:And Diana the bajoran would go to the she is an alien bit. Yes, it is considered too. Although her name should be different, unless eh is something like half-bajoran with one human parent. Smile
The Emissary is a prime catalyst or even example for bajoran god influence in mankind. Bajor is by 2409 already an established member within the Federation. So the half alien part could be easily explained.

Just a question, do I get it right that you're going to roll in STO with two characters, one Angie and one Diana?
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Post  Diurne on Sun Dec 13, 2009 10:16 pm

Seetherius wrote:Just a question, do I get it right that you're going to roll in STO with two characters, one Angie and one Diana?

What about Zhen ?!

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Post  Rhino on Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:30 am

Seetherius wrote:Just a question, do I get it right that you're going to roll in STO with two characters, one Angie and one Diana?
No, no, no. Smile They will be just part of the crew. That is why I was interested if bridge officers can go in missions too. Captain will be someone else.

What about Zhen ?!
I told you when we started MapTool ST: Zhen was not made with STO in mind, but as tabletop character. Can anyone see Zhen as captain really?
But he will also be part of the bridge crew.

By the way what are the positions on the bridge in STO anyway?
Helmsman, navigator, tactical officer, science officer, engineer (although not strictly on the bridge) and... comms? Doctor (though only McCoy was more on the bridge than in sickbay Wink)?

Because STO offers option to have your own bridge crew it is unnecessary to make several ships, it's more simple to put them on one ship. Also I pretty much intend on playing with one crew (except for TOS themed one that I will make for my own fun, but that will not be nothing "main", just for sporadic fun.
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Post  Seetherius on Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:56 am

Ah! You want Angie and Diana represented as Bridge Officers instead someone of them a Captain? So Angie, Diana and Zhen are going to be Bridge Officers of your new unknown Captain?
Rhino wrote:By the way what are the positions on the bridge in STO anyway?
You have Bridge Officer seats there, at the beginning while on fly on your Miranda you have 3 seats open, one for each division: Tactical, Engineering, Science. If you advance you get more seats for each division (and thus more abilities in space).
But this doesn't mean you can't have more officers. You can recruit more officers than seats you have.
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Post  Rhino on Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:36 pm

Seetherius wrote:Ah! You want Angie and Diana represented as Bridge Officers instead someone of them a Captain? So Angie, Diana and Zhen are going to be Bridge Officers of your new unknown Captain?
Exactly. Smile
Only thing to make things perfect would be "impersonate"-like command when you could type sentences as if they are said by another character like CoH had with Mastermind pets talking. Smile

But this doesn't mean you can't have more officers. You can recruit more officers than seats you have.
This is great news. Very Happy One ship and certain cast of characters.
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Post  Diurne on Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:06 pm

Rhino wrote:Can anyone see Zhen as captain really?

You should hear Ensign Riashaala commenting what's happening around.

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