A challenge!

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A challenge!

Post  Rhino on Wed Jan 27, 2010 1:10 pm

All hell broke loose on forums when Cryptic announced that Vibora Bay will be paid content. Is is a bad move or not depends on how big will it be, if it is packed with stuff and content, okay it can be called expansion, if it's just a zone with missions... that is not so good.

But anyway, aside from that what is coming is finally...

This One Goes to Eleven
We’ll be introducing difficulty levels that players can set both for individual heroes and for their team. With 1 lower and 2 higher levels of difficulty to select from, players can create a challenge that fits their play style and ability.

Finally some challenge. Smile
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Re: A challenge!

Post  Diurne on Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:15 pm

Oh, there is several comments to do on Cryptic latest "State of the Game"

By popular demand, we’re going to be bringing back the Blood Moon event with a few twists and upgrades based on your feedback.

I'm not going to blame them (Cryptic). But seriously, the Bloodmoon event was bland, only endless spawn of zombies to enter the ever-the-(almost)same caves to redo over and over the same fight against the same boss.
Then, I wonder how does it come we have uninspired content in MMOGs. If people are asking for monster bashing with nothing more ambitious, we're not going to see a new generation of MMOGs anytime soon.
Bloodmoon... seriously... what else ? Popular demand asking to bring back the "Winter Event" ?

We’ll be introducing difficulty levels that players can set both for individual heroes and for their team. With 1 lower and 2 higher levels of difficulty to select from, players can create a challenge that fits their play style and ability.

Considering you can already reasonably play solo against reds, I'm not sure it will change much on the challenge scale (ok, it depends on character power selection).
The core of the problem doesn't lie in mob levels but in the open world philosophy. Because it's open world, the number of enemies is always limited to a handful.
A handful of mobs, be they white, orange or red, won't pose much challenge to many characters. A purple henchman is peeled by Lithium minigun only marginally more slowly than a white.
Now, if they allow us to add the "Tough" quality to our foes...

Cutting-edge temporal technology invented by the genius tinkerer Juryrig allows heroes to travel back to moments in their own history. Have a moment of personal glory that you want to relive, a mission that didn’t quite go the way you wanted, or missing an elusive perk? Here’s your chance!

Sounds familiar.
Juryrig, eh ? A hero from Vibora Bay. With such a prankster that he is, I'm not sure I want anything related to time-travel made by him Smile
I'm not sure he's the best character, setting-wise, to introduce time-travel... On the other hand, he's the only technology related in Vibora Bay. Must explain.
I would have choose Silverback or even maybe something with Captain Chronos (-the- expert).

We’ve had a big secret here at Cryptic, and we can’t hold it in any longer. Over the past few months we’ve been working like mad on our first expansion for Champions Online! Vibora Bay is one of the Gulf Coast’s largest and most exciting cities. It’s a center of commerce, culture, tourism, and some incredibly strange goings-on. It maintains unusual traditions of mysticism and religion along with an eclectic group of inhabitants and frequent paranormal activities. Heroes constantly face threats of global proportions, but this time the crisis is greater than ever. The apocalypse has come, and it rides upon the half angelic / half demonic wings of Therakiel.

While I'm happy to see more of the Champions universe... to be totally sincere, I'm sooooo tired to see hordes of magic users in games that aren't fantasy...
But ok, Vibora Bay is the only other city of the setting that got a published book (Hudson City doesn't count, it's in the Dark Champions setting). So it sounds logical.
And Therakiel isn't half angel/half demon. He's a full Angel that Fell from Heavens, smashed by God. The only thing is he wasn't a complete rebel at heart and then didn't fall as deep as ending in Hell. So he just crashed on Earth and stayed there...
So he's a bit crazy now too. Stuck between hatred and redemption.

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Re: A challenge!

Post  Diurne on Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:50 pm

Rhino wrote:All hell broke loose on forums when Cryptic announced that Vibora Bay will be paid content. Is is a bad move or not depends on how big will it be, if it is packed with stuff and content, okay it can be called expansion, if it's just a zone with missions... that is not so good.

I forgot to comment that.
The thing is, as far as I know, there is enough people already complaining about "level gaps", the difficulty to hit max level (because it's so important. See, once done, you can complain on the boards about the end-game) and, maybe what is the most universal, the replayability (under level 10-15, there is only basically two paths, only).

So if Vibora Bay is the patch to the holes in missions progression, having it being sold will make people cringe. Because it's expected there are no holes in the progression at first.

It may be only one single zone. Which may be relatively large, seeing how zones are big in CO. Then I guess it depends a lot how much they plan to charge for it.


I guess people are used to free content delivered regularly now. Plus it's how CoX was going.
I don't mind much paying for content since the subscription fee is for the access to the game only. It doesn't and never had entitled a "right for free content" (like I occasionally read when people consider the monthly fee is paying for new content).

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Re: A challenge!

Post  Rhino on Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:53 pm


I'm not going to blame them (Cryptic). But seriously, the Bloodmoon event was bland, only endless spawn of zombies to enter the ever-the-(almost)same caves to redo over and over the same fight against the same boss.
Then, I wonder how does it come we have uninspired content in MMOGs. If people are asking for monster bashing with nothing more ambitious, we're not going to see a new generation of MMOGs anytime soon.
Bloodmoon... seriously... what else ? Popular demand asking to bring back the "Winter Event" ?

I quite agree, but I actually find it fun that they will be bringing it back on three days of real world full moons. while event may be poorly picked, the idea is okay. Imagine event with werewolves running around on full moon (with some special missions linked to it). It is only once per month and it could be something special and fun. Good idea, poor choice of event... unless they fixed it somehow.

Considering you can already reasonably play solo against reds, I'm not sure it will change much on the challenge scale (ok, it depends on character power selection).
The core of the problem doesn't lie in mob levels but in the open world philosophy. Because it's open world, the number of enemies is always limited to a handful.
A handful of mobs, be they white, orange or red, won't pose much challenge to many characters. A purple henchman is peeled by Lithium minigun only marginally more slowly than a white.
Now, if they allow us to add the "Tough" quality to our foes...

I just hope that it will be CoH-like... with level will come greater numbers. Hopefully.

I would have choose Silverback or even maybe something with Captain Chronos (-the- expert).

Considering Angie's past with him I would like to see Captain Chronos in game. Smile

And Therakiel isn't half angel/half demon. He's a full Angel that Fell from Heavens, smashed by God. The only thing is he wasn't a complete rebel at heart and then didn't fall as deep as ending in Hell. So he just crashed on Earth and stayed there...
So he's a bit crazy now too. Stuck between hatred and redemption.

What? More crazy relatives of Diana around? Woohoo! Wink

I forgot to comment that.
The thing is, as far as I know, there is enough people already complaining about "level gaps", the difficulty to hit max level (because it's so important. See, once done, you can complain on the boards about the end-game) and, maybe what is the most universal, the replayability (under level 10-15, there is only basically two paths, only).
So if Vibora Bay is the patch to the holes in missions progression, having it being sold will make people cringe. Because it's expected there are no holes in the progression at first.

This is actually my only problem with this all... yes, CO does need more content and variety, especially at low levels. And Vibora is only high-level content. That makes little sense really. Okay, it is additional choice so you can avoid Lemuria, but in a game that almost desperately needs extra content, it's really odd choice to give end game content and not something to keep people playing. Vibora could have been made with things from say level 20 to 40 considering that most people stop playing at level 20. Unrelated to this, I also think that nemesis should have been introduced at level 20, and not 25 since level 20 is usually that breaking point where game needs more stuff to keep people interested.

It may be only one single zone. Which may be relatively large, seeing how zones are big in CO. Then I guess it depends a lot how much they plan to charge for it.
I guess people are used to free content delivered regularly now. Plus it's how CoX was going.
I don't mind much paying for content since the subscription fee is for the access to the game only. It doesn't and never had entitled a "right for free content" (like I occasionally read when people consider the monthly fee is paying for new content).

I fully agree. CoH is an exception in MMO world, and I was aware of that. I actually never expected fully free content, but it does depend on size and how much things are in it and that the price is scaled accordingly.
but in all honesty a lot of CoH Issues would be better to never be made in my opinion. Hell I don't have any urge to back to it just because of last few Issues that turned a fun game into a boring one for me with content that I did not want in it. I would rather have a choice than be forced on something I don't want, however funny this may sound with paid content you actually have a choice. If I don't like let's say Rikti Invasion, I don't buy it, the game does not force it on me, and so everyone is happy.
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Re: A challenge!

Post  Diurne on Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:21 pm

Rhino wrote:And Vibora is only high-level content. That makes little sense really.

Actually, it's speculation, mainly because people complain about holes in level progression above 30.
Now, nothing says Vibora won't be a level 5-10, 15-20, 25-30 zone offering a third path for new character replayability.

The Vibora Bay setting isn't particularly calling for "high end content". Black Mask, the local heroine, and Robert Caliburn, the maybe-next-Archmage-of-Earth, are not supreme beings fighting to save the cosmos at every street corner.

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Re: A challenge!

Post  Rhino on Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:46 pm

If they make it like that, it will be great really. Especially since I'm kind of well acquainted with Vibora Bay. Wink
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